To tie down or to not to tie down?

ok my mare has had really bad feet problems (I bought her that way) and I have been working SO hard to fix them and make her feel better. I got a new fairrer and he put these special shoes on and blah blah blah. Well I%26#039;m really glad that my mare is capable of barrel racing now and that she feels better.....but now she also feels well enough to throw a fit. She runs off with me constantly (but I stay on) and then when she%26#039;s done throwing her fit I will punish her by making her lope for awhile. But what is really annoying me is that whenever I try to get her to stop or turn to get control back over her she throws her head up to the point that no matter what I do she wont respond. Do I need a tie down? or a new bit? or something else you have in mind? I hate to have to force her head down with a tie down but I want and need her to listen to me. Any Suggestions?

To tie down or to not to tie down?
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that it would really help you and your mare to get out of the arena and do some road and cross country riding...forget the running, which shouldn%26#039;t be done anyway until you get her under control...the gimmick that you should be using is your HANDS...There is no substitute for good hands. You can put her head where you want it with your hands...stand still, ask her lightly with our hands to flex at the poll and her head will come down, naturally, not artificially. Tie downs are mainly used in speed events for balance, and then they are not used tightly. When you have our mare%26#039;s mind and body in your hands, then go back and walk you barrel pattern...if there is no problem with the way that she is using her body for balance, them move on to the trot...don%26#039;t worry about getting close to the barrel, just work on a consistent pattern with consistent speed. Don%26#039;t go on to the next step until you and she have mastered the one that you are on.





You seriously need to spend as much time out of the arena doing different things as you are working her in the arena...get her in with cattle, sit on her with a lariat and build one loop after another on her...carry stuff on her, don%26#039;t fight with her, teach her that you and she are on the same team...gain her confidence outside the arena and you will have it inside as well. Good luck, just don%26#039;t get in a hurry...I know that it is so tempting to just go run the barrels, been there...but it just doesn%26#039;t work that way, you have to be patient and spend a lot of time watching others run the barrels..you can learn a lot that way because you can be objective and see what they are doing to cause problems or what they are doing to create success.
Reply:First thing i think of is diet... maybe not so much food or grain... working her is a good way to get her to calm down but dont over do it... in regards to gettin her to work with her head down... the best and natural way is to start on the ground... lunging her and training her to keep her head down.. (clicker training works a treat) or you can get a martingale or rings or alike... but if you really dont want to force her then u need to start from scratch and teach her to focus on keeping her head down... dont forget positive re enforcement with treats and praise
Reply:Can I ask what bit you are currently using? Because it could be as simple as changing bits, or it could be very complicated. I agree that she needs consistent training, but you need to get her to drop her head and give to pressure, rather than stiffening against it, so go back to round pen work, or small arena work, rather than running barrels...period. Don%26#039;t run her at all, except just longeing her under saddle, not riding her. When you ride, make sure she stays with you (not throwing her head and taking off), or you may need to move to a smaller pen to work.





I would suggest taking her back to basics, putting her in a plain ring snaffle or similar bit, and asking her to give and bend with her head. Is she always stiff and resistant? If so, work on getting her to lower that neck/head. Apply consistent rein pressure and just hold it steady...pull back until you see the slightest drop of her head. Release all pressure immediately, pat her neck, ask her to walk around the pen. After a few circles, stop her again, and then apply more pressure. Wait for the drop or give of her head, and then release. Repeat this often, whenever you ride, and practice makes perfect. She should soften up in your hands and start building muscle on the top line of her neck, rather than strengthening the bottom of her neck, which makes her throw up her head.





A lot of barrel horses have this high head problem, but it%26#039;s made from running too much and not having the basics down right. A tie down isn%26#039;t the answer, I%26#039;m afraid. You need to get control of the horse before advancing to barrels.





If she absolutely is so hard mouthed that she won%26#039;t give to a ring snaffle, you can go to a thinner mouthpiece on a ring snaffle, which will be more severe. Or you can switch to a bit with shanks but still has a broken mouth piece, like a reining style bit. I like these, and they%26#039;re good for a horse that is advancing from a ring snaffle to a curb. You can still direct rein because the mouth is broken (hinged), but you have the shank/curb chain to help get more control.





I would just suggest a lot of time in the saddle that doesn%26#039;t involve running. Get her to bend, flex a little, drop her head, and walk about nicely. When she can do that, start walking barrels. Make sure she has plenty of turn-out time and space to run. Just not when you%26#039;re riding her. Good luck!
Reply:This could just be training problems. A lot of horses who are starved or have medical conditions have a totally different personality than what they show at first. You should probably look into some training lessons, since it seems to be an all over problem. Personally, I believe that tie downs really are a band-aid, covering the problem up, not really fixing it.
Reply:those are training issues that shouldn%26#039;t be resolved with a quick fix like a tie down or a new bit. you could lunge her before you ride her to release some of her energy- but you should do it in side reins so she has to behave and stay balanced (no bucking or running on the lunge line). And work on transitions or lateral work to get her to slow down and listen to your aids. i%26#039;m not a western rider, but i heard somewhere that tie downs are used on barrel horses and ropers not to get them to keep their heads down- but when they%26#039;re making tight turns, to give them something to brace against so that they can stay upright more easily. so you shouldn%26#039;t resort to it at this point because you need to work on getting her to listen to your half halt. hope that helps... maybe you can work with an instructor to iron out these issues?
Reply:since her teeth are OK and she%26#039;s seen the vet i%26#039;d address bitting issues first. not sure what you ride her in but i%26#039;d go back to a ring snaffle for now. second, instead of loping her down after she throws a fit, try getting her tired before you get on her. throw her on the lunge line and let her get some her energy out. can you pull her head around, make her follow her nose? when she throws her head up, she%26#039;s coming out of the bridle and avoiding the bit which allows her to run away. pull her head to one side when she does that. your hand will end up at your hip, draw her around, not up. she%26#039;ll be more likely to drop her head so she won%26#039;t rear and she%26#039;ll have to stop, or at least slow down. keep her on a tight circle until she stops. please practice this at a walk and a trot before you take off at a gallop and hope it works.





also, does she do this when you%26#039;re just riding around, or only when you put her on barrels? if she%26#039;s fine when you%26#039;re just loping around but has a tantrum when she sees a barrel, you%26#039;re going to have to teach her that you control when she%26#039;s allowed to run, which means walking and jogging the barrels. when she tosses her head and gets upset, draw her around until she stops. it won%26#039;t be a fun game for her for too long (unless she%26#039;s super stubborn or likes games.)





i know you had the vet out, but have you considered chiropractic or massage? does your saddle fit her well? are you working with a knowledgeable trainer for these issues?





i%26#039;d avoid a tie down, or draw reins. you could use a running martingale (not a training fork) but stay away from anything that forces her head down. adjust your martingale so the rings your reins go thru reach to her throatlach. this still gives you some leverage and will keep her from breaking your nose when she tosses her head, but if you get into trouble her head isn%26#039;t tied down so you don%26#039;t have an added reason for her to rear or flip over on you.
Reply:I wouldnt use a tie down. Tie downs are to keep barrel racers heads in allignment and encourage to keep the head low. if you use a tie down she will think she has no choice but to go up. Meaning she will rear. Which is very dangerous for you and her.





A harsher bit wont help any. I think you should work LESS time in the saddle and more time doing ground work.


its quite obvious she does not trust you to be a leader, and if she doesnt trust you to be a leader she will dominate you.





You need to show her your capable of being a leader. again spend more time on the ground than in the saddle.
Reply:From reading the details of your question, this is really not an issue of weather to use a tie down or not. This is a training problem. You need to go back and teach your horse to yield to bit pressure. And re-enforce it every day. This is the only way to deal with this problem. A tie down would be a short term fix until you can re-teach this mare. It will stop her from lifting her head to evade bit pressure. I would suggest a war-bonnet type tie down. It works off of pressure on the poll and leave the nose free to flex and bend. Adjusted correctly a tie down can be an effective training aide, but should not be a permanent addition to your tack. Before you take her out again I would suggest doing a lot of bending work on a paddock that is too small for her to run off in, or a round pen if you have access to one. Lots of bending and gait transitions should get her back on track to being a well behaved horse. Basically start all over on her, like she is a green broke horse and re-teach her everything, especially whoa.





With you wanting to use her as a barrel horse you will need whoa, bending and rating (which the gait transitions will supply), before you add speed of any type. If you can%26#039;t control her at home, there is no way you will be able to control her at a show. Please let me know if you need further information and I will be glad to forward it to you.
Reply:what you can do is ride her in a loose rein every day for a week. Don%26#039;t run barrels or even make her think she has to work. Right now she thinks every time you get in that arena, she thinks %26quot;Go Go Go.%26quot; You want to keep her guessing and every time you get in that arena for the week, do something different every time. At the eigth day, see how she is with barrels in the arena. Then, try them. She may run a better time or do the complete opposite of what most of results are.
Reply:Plain ans smipily, if you tie her down, and she throws her head up, she may rear and you may go off.
Reply:I wouldn%26#039;t use a harsher bit. I have no idea what %26#039;tie down%26#039; is- and I have no problem admitting this, as I don%26#039;t know everything(sadly)- but perhaps your mare might need some retraining, to remind her of how to behave while being ridden.


When she%26#039;s throwing her head up, does she toss it up and down constantly, or just hold it up? Check your bridle and make sure that the nose band isn%26#039;t too tight (I had this problem with my first horse). It is possible that the nose band could be rubbing against her lips and pinching them. Also check that you have the right size bit for her, and that it is fitted properly.


It is also possible that she was badly treated by a previous rider who used to haul on the reins. If this was the case, she%26#039;d be throwing her head up in an attempt to escape further punishment to her mouth. (My previous mare went to a young girl with cruel hands. Whenever she was scared, she%26#039;d haul on the reins, causing the mare to bleed from the corners of her mouth. When the mare sensed her rider getting scared she%26#039;d slow down, and run away when she was yanked in the mouth. This led to the girl using a whip, and whenever the mare tried to run, the girl would belt her on the head with that whip. In the end, the mare started rearing in a desperate act to escape this torture, and the girl became too terrified to ride the mare, who is now living out her life as a ruined paddock ornament. By the way, I did not sell the mare to that girl- my mother did, behind my back.)


Hope this helps, but it sounds like she needs some retraining. Do you know how much training she has recieved in the past?
Reply:Try a rutledge roper bit. It looks harsh but it isn%26#039;t. The wide flat bar rests on the tongue. The only time it comes into action is if she refuses to stop or respond to your hands. I had a young girl I was teaching to barrel race. She was small framed and the mare would take advantage of her. It gave her the extra upper body strength she needed. Plus she made the NBHA world finals. I would say it worked.
Reply:Tie downs are very severe, and allow the horse no slack if they want or need to pick up their heads for any reason. As the first answerer said, the horse%26#039;s immediate reaction will be to rear. I would recommend instead a running martingale, which is English I know, but which is much less severe, especially when made rather loose. If I were you I would also get a thorough vet check.
Reply:I would go back to a snaffle bit and teach her some basic flexing exercises. You need to get her mouth back in your hands. She has learned to evade the bit by throwing her head up. It is a very dangerous thing for you. She can break your nose very quickly. You might have a dentist look at her teeth. She may have developed a tooth problem. Good luck
Reply:maybe not a tie down but a head breaker it%26#039;s a piece of wire wrapped in plastic that goes on either side of the ear and applies more pressure tan a tie down which tends to be leather or nylon material that puts pressure on the nose.



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